167: Behind the Scenes of my Website Copy Overhaul
Welcome to today’s episode where we conduct a dive deep into a challenge that’s been a major headache for me: revamping my website copy.
I found myself at a point where I needed to shift my website focus more towards my coaching services, especially since I had transitioned most of my digital products over to my HelloContent Shopify store.
The messaging on my personal brand website just wasn't a great fit anymore—it needed a fresh, new focus. Another challenge I had is that my website visitors were at difference stages in their business journey so I wanted to make sure I was directing everyone to the right place.
That’s when I brought in copywriting expert, Sarah Sambles, to help streamline my website's messaging to better highlight these changes. Today, Sarah joins us to discuss how we transformed the home and about pages to more accurately reflect my current offerings and create a stronger connection with my audience.
If you're struggling to align your website with the core of your brand, this episode is packed with insights and practical tips that can help.
Let’s jump right into the world of copywriting and discover how to enhance your own site’s messaging. Here we go!
Mentioned In This Episode:
Messaging Matters: Redefining Your Website’s Voice
In this episode, I sat down with Sarah Sambles, a brand messaging copywriting expert and coach, who I brought on board to help revamp the copy on my website.
We discussed a significant challenge I was facing: my site was desperately in need of an update as it no longer captured the essence of my evolving personal brand or the variety of offers I now provide, especially my coaching services.
During our conversation, we delved into how we tackled these issues together, and Sarah shared some invaluable tips on how crafting thoughtful, customer-centric web copy can significantly enhance the way a brand resonates with its audience..
The Starting Point
I kicked off by sharing my own frustrations with my website’s outdated content. It just wasn’t mirroring the growth of my personal brand or the breadth of my offerings anymore. Realizing I needed a fresh perspective to effectively communicate my core message, I turned to Sarah, whose flair for reaching the "heart of the story" seemed like the perfect solution.
Unpacking the Method
Sarah walked us through her approach, emphasizing the need to deeply understand the target audience and what sparks the entrepreneur's passion. She gave some standout advice: zero in on your ideal customer and those interactions that leave you buzzing. She urged listeners to consider what aspects of their business light them up or cause frustration, as these emotions can drive the creation of genuine and engaging brand messages.
Addressing Diverse Audiences
One challenge I highlighted was the difficulty of speaking to multiple audience segments through a single platform. Sarah suggested a clever analogy—think of your strategy like an arrow: sharply focused at the tip but broadening to include various aspects of your offerings. This ensures that while your main message hits the mark directly, there’s still room to guide other segments to the information they need.
Rethinking the Home Page
Moving into practical territory, Sarah stressed the importance of the home page—it should welcome visitors like a foyer welcomes guests into a home, directing them where they need to go. The home page must clearly state who you serve, the transformation you promise, and why you're the right choice, essentially covering the 'who, what, where, and why' of journalistic inquiry.
The Power of Story in Copy
Sarah is big on the narrative aspect of copywriting. She recommends structuring web copy in three parts: where your customer is now, the journey (with its hurdles and solutions), and where they hope to end up. This storytelling method does more than catch the eye; it fosters a deeper connection by making the reader the protagonist of the story.
DIY Copywriting Guidance
For those not ready to hire a professional copywriter, Sarah didn’t leave you hanging. She offered a dual approach focusing on both content creation and the writing process. Start by collecting real feedback and emotions from customers. Then, when writing, don’t aim for perfection on your first go. Draft a rough outline, step back, and refine it, saving the crafting of your headline or banner for last, ensuring it captures your core message succinctly.
Wrapping Up
As we wrapped up, Sarah pointed listeners toward a free resource to help craft a compelling brand story, which promises to assist entrepreneurs in articulating their unique journey and solutions for their customers effectively.
In Conclusion
This episode wasn't just a chat about the technicalities of copywriting; it offered actionable advice for entrepreneurs at all stages, looking to enhance how they communicate online. Between my firsthand experiences and Sarah’s expert tips, listeners received a masterclass in creating website copy that not only resonates but also truly engages and converts.
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Transcript:
Dr. Destini Copp [00:00:03]:
Hi there. I have a special guest with me today, and I'm super excited to have this conversation with her. She has helped me so much with my new website copy. So I wanted to bring her on, and we're gonna have just a very informal conversation about the challenges that I was having with my website and how we solved for them. So today, I have Sarah Samples with me, and Sarah is a copywriter and coach who helps impact driven entrepreneurs grow their influence by crafting compelling authentic brand messaging. And she has helped me tremendously with this. But before we kinda get into the conversation, I want, Sarah, if you could just take a second and tell the audience just a little bit more about you.
Sarah Sambles [00:00:53]:
Thank you. Thanks for having me. And, yeah, I'm really excited to have this conversation too. Yeah. So, as you said, I'm a copywriter and a coach. And what I really love to do is help people get to the heart of their story. Because I think that's sometimes we just can't read our own mail. We can't read our own label from inside the bottle.
Sarah Sambles [00:01:15]:
And that's what I found. I've been doing this for nearly 25 years. I've been in marketing for for that amount of time. And it doesn't matter what someone comes to me with. They might wanna launch a product. They might want a new website. They, you know, might wanna write a book, but the thing we find hardest is to kinda nail our message. The the the thing, the nugget, the heart of the matter, the the the gold, and that's what I really love to help people do.
Sarah Sambles [00:01:41]:
So I do that with coaching. Some of that's 1 on 1, some of that's group coaching, and then I do copywriting for people as well. Because some sometimes we don't have the time or the skill to do it ourselves, and we wanna outsource that someone else. So that's what I do.
Dr. Destini Copp [00:01:55]:
And that's what you did for me. Right? So I hired you to help me write the copy and the messaging for my website, And I loved what you said. You help people get to the heart of the story, and that's what you helped me do. And I wanna take a second and just walk the audience through and everybody listening here what I was struggling with. So I had a website that I've had out there for many, many years and kind of the offers and what I wanted in the message that I wanted to show and, you know, kinda display through that website had changed. And I was really struggling with how to kind of display my messaging, communicate my core message from that website because I have a lot of different offers that I have in this particular business, and we're talking about my destinycop.com website, my personal brand website. And things have changed over the years. Right? I have my Mhmm.
Dr. Destini Copp [00:02:57]:
Hello content shop where I have all of my digital products there, even a lot of my online courses. And what I wanted to display and communicate and really that message that I wanted to come through on this per my personal brand website was how I could help people with my coaching, whether that's any group coaching that I do or my 1 on 1 coaching. And I was really struggling, right, with making that change, which is why I reached out to you and hired you to kind of, you know, help me formula formulate that. And I'm still, you know, even to this day, it it was I can't I can't believe how hard that was for me to really, you know, kinda make that transition and really position my personal brand website and communicate that message, that was solely focused pretty much solely focused on my 1 on 1 and just the coaching that I do. So let me ask you this. When you have somebody that is pivoting and they need to rewrite their home page and, you know, maybe even in their about page and other pages on their website. Where do you say they should start? Where would you guide them to start with that?
Sarah Sambles [00:04:19]:
Mhmm. It's a good question. Because as you say, it's not easy. And, yeah, I don't believe these things happen overnight either. They they tend to be organic, don't they? So, yeah, but it is doable. So I would say and I think one of the exercises I took you through. So I would say number 1, start with your audience. And by that, I mean, even if your audience is small, even if you don't have many customers you've interacted with, Think back to something I often get clients to do is I say, think back to the last three times you interacted with a customer and you loved it.
Sarah Sambles [00:04:55]:
You know, what was going on there? Why did you love it? What, you know, what what was coming up for you? So I would, number 1, start with your audience. So, you know, thinking about the people you love working with the most and then also trying to dig into what do they need, What are they looking for? What are their struggles? What's the language they use? So I I do suggest starting with your audience. But at the same time, then think about, okay, what what sparks me? What brings me to life? What makes me most passionate? And, I think a couple of the questions I asked you, because I know I ask all my clients and they always kind of get stunned when I ask them, is what makes you mad and what do you think what do you wish were different? And the reason I asked that is because I think that gets us thinking about those those kind of gut reactions that are really core to to us as business owners, and the things we just don't wanna sacrifice on and the things we wish people knew and we wish they had help with, we wish they could do differently. You know, so I think if you look at those two things, number 1, like, who's the audience I love working with and what are they crying out for? And then number 2, what really makes me passionate? I think that'll be a really strong place to help you hone in on the main thing you wanna talk about.
Dr. Destini Copp [00:06:18]:
And I think you also asked me who you don't wanna work with, which I thought was so very critical for that exercise because there's definitely, you know, an ideal client, an ideal customer that I want to work with in my, you know, in my coaching. But there's other people that they I just I'd know that we wouldn't necessarily be great fits for. And the other thing that I was struggling with that you helped me kinda we kinda worked through this, and we'll we'll talk about it in in a little bit more detail. But I have a lot of different, people who I help. Like, I have people who don't have digital products or courses yet, but they want some. I have people who already have their digital products and their courses, but they're not they're they're struggling with selling them. So I definitely have offers that I can help them with. And then I have this other niche out there who have digital products, and they are selling them, but they just don't have that consistent revenue.
Dr. Destini Copp [00:07:22]:
So what would you say to someone who has more than one audience that they serve, but they still want that core message coming through on their website? What would how would you kinda coach and work them through that?
Sarah Sambles [00:07:37]:
Yeah. Again, it's such a good question because it's it's a big struggle for all of us, isn't it? And it is for me too. I do more than one thing. And I think this is the thing with the majority of people I work with are what I would call creative entrepreneurs or kind of content led. You know, they tend to be coaches, write writers, educators, that kind of thing. And so we're people with lots of ideas, and we wanna help, we wanna serve, and it's so challenging to pick one thing. But, yes. So I would say, to start with, what number 1, don't get scared of picking one thing.
Sarah Sambles [00:08:15]:
Now I'm not saying you have to niche in your business. In terms of your business model, you can choose to sell lots of different kinds of products and sell them in lots of different kinds of ways. But an a picture I use sometimes with clients is of an arrow. So if you think about the, you know, the physically how an arrow is made, it's this kind of triangle shape and you have the point of the arrow. So what I say to them is that point of the arrow is gonna be your main message. That's the thing you're gonna put on your Instagram, you know, little kind of one liner, your LinkedIn one liner, your kind of tagline, if you're gonna have a tagline on your website, you know, the start of your bio is gonna be this this point of the arrow, the head of the arrow. But then underneath that, the the triangle gets broader, that that head of the arrow gets broader, and there's space for all the other little products. So number 1, don't panic.
Sarah Sambles [00:09:06]:
Number 2, if you're very specific with one audience, you're gonna you're gonna, attract them and resonate with them, and then you'll be surprised who else comes along. So it doesn't mean your your business is gonna get smaller. And, and then the other thing I had to say is, pick 1 and point the others. So what I mean by that is get really specific in terms of the copy on your home page and, the the main copy at the top and kind of how that copy flows down. Use that copy to pick 1, pick the one audience, but then you point the other people somewhere else where you can help them. And that's where we ended up with your website. And it wasn't necessarily an easy decision for you to kinda go, oh, okay. I'm gonna move my links to to my digital products.
Sarah Sambles [00:09:59]:
I'm gonna move that further down the page. That feels a bit scary to do to begin with. But what you're doing when you do that is you're picking one audience first and you're you're creating a really compelling flow, a really compelling, you know, journey of copy they're reading through that keeps them there on the page. And for those that's not relevant to, you're pointing them somewhere else. You're directing them somewhere else. So I think that's where I'd suggest starting. But, you know, the other thing to think about is this isn't just about copy and the words you use. This is about your business model and your business.
Sarah Sambles [00:10:32]:
So, you know, get real with yourself. Give yourself yourself some time and space to think about, okay, what sort of business do I want to run? Who do I love working with the most? Where do I wanna spend most of my energy? Where do I want 80% of my revenue to come from? And all of those kinds of questions will help you hone in on that one audience to start with.
Dr. Destini Copp [00:10:53]:
And I think for me, what helped me with that kind of that core message was thinking about my overall mission. You know, my overall mission and how I wanted to, kind of, you know, come out into the world. And even with the overall message miss mission and the core messaging that I have, the other products and services that I offer, they still fall under that core mission. You know, it's just that there's, you know, depending on where somebody is in their business journey that will kinda direct where I can help them. So like you said, what we ended up doing is putting some of the lead magnets that I had. Let's say, if somebody, you know, wanted to create like a mini course. So or they wanted to create their tripwire funnel. We put those lead magnets a little bit farther down on the page.
Dr. Destini Copp [00:11:47]:
Now they're still there for somebody that wants that's where they are in their business journey, and they kinda wanna pick their business journey. They're still there for them. On that home page, it would just direct them somewhere else once they, you know, download that particular lead magnet. So let's go back to that home page. So when somebody is redesigning their website Mhmm. Yeah Mhmm.
Sarah Sambles [00:12:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. It's a hard one. It feels so overwhelming, doesn't it, when when we think about our home page? But let's try and simplify that. So from the top, obviously, you're gonna have your navigation and your menu items. You know, you're gonna choose the most important places you wanna direct people to. And the typical things you need, if nothing else, are some sort of about page and some sort of services page or product page, you know, and a contact page. So you're gonna have that kind of thing at the top.
Sarah Sambles [00:12:48]:
But then in terms of the copy on the home page, what I like to do is, you wanna make sure that at the top of the page, you've got who you work with or who you serve, where you help them get to, so like the result or the transformation, how you do that, and why they should pick you. That those are really the most important elements. So who you serve, where you help them get get, how you help them get there, and why they should pick you. So, really, it's like journalism. You're going to the w questions, the who, the what, the where, the why. So if nothing else, you need those things on your home page. Now you can make different decisions about where you put them and, you know, I've seen some really good home pages where there's a banner and then, you know, then there's, a list of different services people can go to straight away and then you kinda get into the more of what I would call the meaty copy of kind of who I am, what I do for you, how I help you. Or what I like to do is I like to start with, hi.
Sarah Sambles [00:13:56]:
I know who you are. I know what you're struggling with, and here's how I'm gonna help you. So there's different ways you can physically lay out on the page, but, yeah, you definitely need the what, where, who, why, on the page. And then you need to direct them. So I have a friend called Kristen. She's also a brand strategist, and she uses this great analogy of a home page being a bit like the foyer of your home. So you're welcoming someone in and then you're directing them. Here's the bathroom.
Sarah Sambles [00:14:25]:
There's the kitchen if you get thirsty. We're gonna go sit on the couch over there or in the living room in a minute. You know? So you need places on your home page to direct people to what is most important to them, to the information they most need and to the services that that you offer that match their needs. So whether that's your podcast, whether that's paid services, whatever it is, you're gonna want that on your home page and a free lead magnet. And now I would say put that free lead magnet up in the banner, or very close to. We have, a saying in journalism, the above the fold, and that literally comes from physically a newspaper, would have a fold in it. And whatever was above that fold was the information people would see straight away. So now in our world, when we're looking at a website, above the fold means before they have to scroll.
Sarah Sambles [00:15:20]:
So you need to get the most important information before someone has to scroll. So that needs to be the, you know, what you do for whom and, you know, directing them to a lead magnet or something. So those, I would say and I know you know, actually, when you look at it like that, it's not that much that has to go on your home page. We we can talk about the copy in a minute. But, yeah, those are the key things. You can play around with where they go, but I would definitely start with who you do excuse me, who you serve, what you do, and that kind of thing. But this is the thing I say to clients when they're writing up any web page. Think about these three things.
Sarah Sambles [00:15:57]:
What do you want the people to know, to feel, and to do? So if you can answer those three questions, what do you want them to know, what do you want them to feel, and what do you want them to do, that will help you structure your page.
Dr. Destini Copp [00:16:13]:
And I love the analogy that you gave us. Like, the home page is like the foyer. When somebody's coming into your home and you can send them elsewhere, you can send them to the kitchen, you can send them to, the dining room or the living room or whatever. So I I love that analogy there. So let's talk a little bit about the the copy and how do we make sure that the copy that we have either on our about page or our home page will resonate with our audience?
Sarah Sambles [00:16:40]:
Mhmm. Yeah. This is what gets me fired up, because, yeah, I just I believe in copy that is what I call customer centric and narrative led. So those are the 2 things I'm always keeping in mind when I'm writing for someone and when I'm coaching someone on how to write their website. So what I mean by that is so number 1, start with the customer. Do not start with yourself. Even an about page is not about you. It's about the customer, and we definitely did that with your about page.
Sarah Sambles [00:17:09]:
It kinda almost turned into a natural sales page actually, didn't it? But, so yeah. So in terms of the copy, the, you know, what I see when I, you know, I read websites and when I write them, what works and what is compelling is when you're speaking directly to someone and you're communicating to them, I get you. So start with your customer. So that means go and read testimonials that that people have written about you. Ask them directly. There's this very cool hack. You can go to Amazon, put in a search term of the type of thing that you do in your business. So, you know, in my case, it would be, you know, copywriter for small business owners or something like that, and you will find books on that topic.
Sarah Sambles [00:17:52]:
Then what you do is you go through the, the reviews that people have written about those books. It doesn't matter if the books are any good or not, but just go start going through a handful of reviews. And what you're looking for is not particularly about the content of the book, but the sorts of things that people were looking for, what they liked, what they didn't like, language they use, any any themes that get repeated. What you're doing when you do that is you're building a copy bank of language and themes that your real customers actually use. And you can literally you know, there are some phrases and themes that are very generic that you can cut and paste. You're not stealing someone's words. You're not taking a whole chunk of text that someone's written. You're just taking phrases like, saved my saved my you know, saved the day or, you know, cut my time in half or you know, so you will start seeing themes, as you read those testimonials.
Sarah Sambles [00:18:51]:
And I think it was Ashlyn Carter that that suggested that, and I just love doing that. I find that really helpful. And that's really helpful if you don't have a lot of customers and if you're newer in your journey, and you don't have a lot of testimonials. So start with your customers. The other thing, you can do is go to some people you've worked with and say, how would you describe me? Ask them for a few words to describe you or ask them, you know, what what how, you know, how if you were introducing me at a party in terms of my business, how would you introduce me? Those kind of things can be really helpful. And also just asking them, you know, what are you looking for? What do you need right now? All of that is very helpful language. So that's step number 1, is get that language that your real customers are actually using. And then the second thing is what I call flow.
Sarah Sambles [00:19:42]:
So the copy that you write needs to be engaging. It needs to make someone want to keep reading. So, you know, I talk about using a narrative flow, a story, and then using emotion. So the most powerful things that we read, have, like, a, you know, have a sort of progression to them, a story to them, and they use emotion. Or another really great way to do it is to be really specific. So rather than saying, oh, you know, you're struggling with not having enough time in your business, you can paint a picture of what that looks like. So, you know, you sit down to write an email, then the, you know, then the phone rings, your kids gotta be picked up from school, then you gotta do this, you gotta do that, and you've run out of time to write your email. You know, that shows someone, oh, I don't have enough time in my in my business, rather than telling them you're struggling with time.
Sarah Sambles [00:20:42]:
So those are some of the things I would say to start with is customer's language. And then think about the flow being a story type of flow. And I can get into that if you want, and then use emotion. So with emotion, I'm saying, you know, rather than just saying you've run out of time, using that example, say it's you're frustrated that you don't have any time. You're exhausted because you get to the end of the day and you haven't finished your to do list and you gotta stay up till midnight to finish it. So yeah. And if you want me to get into the story sort of narrative flow, I can I can get into that?
Dr. Destini Copp [00:21:20]:
Well, let's let's talk about that a little bit. And I know you you even mentioned it for my about page. We definitely made it all about the customer, and it kinda did turn into a little bit of a sales page for and right now, it is tied in to the work with me on my top nav navigational bar on my website. That's what that goes to my about page. Now I might change that in the future once we, you know, kind of expand what we're doing here. But talk talk tell us a little bit more about that, kind of that narrative and that story that we pulled into my website.
Sarah Sambles [00:21:54]:
Yeah. For sure. Yeah. I'm really passionate about this. So, you know, I like to talk about a brand story. So a story is powerful because, it takes someone on a journey, But when I talk about story, I'm not just talking about you going on about, oh, here's here's what I did and here's how great I am. The story needs to start with where your customer is at and how you understand that and how maybe you've been there or you've worked with people who've been there and how you've brought them through. So at its simplest form, if you're gonna think about the copy on your home page or your about page in order to make it flow well and to flow like a story, I see a story in 3 stages.
Sarah Sambles [00:22:32]:
You've got, where you are now, the journey, and where you end up. Simple as that. So now, journey, future. So for you, it might be telling the story. So what we ended up doing was, you know, we were thinking about where are your customers struggling and and what is a similar struggle you have had. So we picked a story that was really compelling about you being in a situation of struggle and then a kind of light bulb moment you had and what you did about that and how it's changed your life. That's the story. So, you know, that you can use very powerfully on an about page.
Sarah Sambles [00:23:09]:
And then when it comes to a home page, I use a similar structure. I start with, what's the customer struggling with? Then, okay. I get you. And either I've been there, and it doesn't matter if you haven't been there, or I know how to help you in that situation. And here's how here's where I'm gonna help you get, and here's how I'm going to help you get there. So, yeah, that's what I would say for making copy compelling either on your about page or your home page is think about that story of where you are now, the journey, and where you where you're gonna end up.
Dr. Destini Copp [00:23:44]:
So, Sarah, if somebody cannot afford a copywriter, what steps do you recommend that they take to try to write either their home page or their about page or both of them, theirselves?
Sarah Sambles [00:23:56]:
Okay. Yeah. Alright. So there's 2 things I would say. There's 2 sides to to writing. 1 is getting the right content, and 1 is your actual physical process, like your system. And quite often, we think the only thing that we're struggling with is the content. You know, people come to me and say, I don't know what to write.
Sarah Sambles [00:24:14]:
But, actually, the process and the system you use is just as important. So in terms of the content, go get customer language like we've been talking about, then think about what's my why, what's my spark story, what is my moment that I decided to do what I do. And if you have those two pieces, you're gonna have, like, 50%, 80% of your content right there. Okay? So number 1 in terms of content, customer language, and then my why and my story of of how I got where I am and why I do what I do. And then you're gonna also need the piece of like, okay. So how do I actually help people? You know, what's the process like? What are my products like? What are my services like? So that's the content. But then in terms of the process, this is my biggest piece of advice. And if you take nothing away from today, I actually have a training about this.
Sarah Sambles [00:25:05]:
Feel free to check it out. It takes you through the my writing process, and if I don't I'll be totally transparent with you, Destiny. When I was writing your pet your pages, it got to a point where I felt stuck, and it's because I wasn't following my own writing process. So my biggest piece of advice is don't start at the beginning. You've got a page in front of you, don't try and write that banner. That is the hardest piece and it's the most important. Start with everything else. So first of all, you gather, you do your research, then you just make lots of bullet points.
Sarah Sambles [00:25:38]:
You do not write any full sentences, then you write a really messy draft and it's terrible and it reads awful and you think you're terrible and you think you're never gonna be a writer and it's never gonna get any better. You leave it 24 hours, you come back to it, and you kind of see what bits are working, what bit aren't, what bits are in the wrong place, and you start moving things around, and then you'll see it start starting to come together. And only when you've done all of that, go back up to the banner and write the banner.
Dr. Destini Copp [00:26:09]:
And I love that tip. And we do that too, like, in when we're writing out, like, either sales emails or just newsletter emails. I always say, do that subject line last. Right? Mhmm. I mean, it's the same concept here. Sarah, thank you so much for joining me today. I loved working with you on my website copy and all the messaging. It was so difficult for me, but having you in my corner just made it so ease so much easier and so much better, and I think we have a a great end product here.
Dr. Destini Copp [00:26:41]:
Can you let people know where they can find you and also where they can find that free gift that you were talking about?
Sarah Sambles [00:26:49]:
Sure. Yeah. So it's my name, sarah samples, s a m b l e s, and sarah has an h on it, dot com. And if you do forward slash brand, you'll get to my page where you can get a freebie, and that freebie is called the brand story map. And it's what I was talking about about how do you communicate that story of where you've been, where your customers are, and, you know, how you solve that and where you are now and how you help them. So it just takes you through and it's it's a document, but it's also you you'll get emails with 3 little videos, and those videos will take you through each of those moments of that story journey so that you've got a really compelling it's kind of like a bio, really, at the end of the day that you can use on your about page. You can use it in your emails. You can use it on social.
Sarah Sambles [00:27:34]:
It's like a key story of, you know, why you do what you do and how you got here and how you help people.
Dr. Destini Copp [00:27:41]:
So, Sarah, thank you so much for joining me and sharing all of your wonderful knowledge with us.
Sarah Sambles [00:27:47]:
That is such a pleasure, and I'm really glad, we got to work together.